Recap of July 2nd Meeting

Thanks to all those who attended our discussion group forum on July 2nd. It was a terrific discussion and the feelings and insights of each person were much appreciated.

Following is a recap of the discussion for those who were not able to attend:

• We discussed the future meeting schedule. We will begin meeting on the 1st and 3rd Thursdays of each month at 7pm.

The topic of the evening's discussion was "Prophetic Guidance- Our Duty to Follow Counsel".

The topic was introduced by discussing the fact that even the elect may be deceived in the latter-days. The only sure way to avoid being deceived and adhere to a true course is to follow the prophet. Excerpts from an exchange on the Internet between a blogger and reader was used to show an example of how some may justify not following the Prophet.

After the blogger posted some thoughts on a discourse delivered by Howard W. Hunter about the dangers of socialism, the reader (a self proclaimed devout member of the church)responded with a statement defending socialism as a better course than the capatilism of America. Following are some excerpts of the discussion (bold and italics added).

Reader: "Socialism in my mind is only praiseworthy in the absence of Zion. Until Zion is here, our society is too wicked to take care of the poor. It is in our nation’s interest to take care of these people. You still haven’t shown me where in the scriptures it says socialism is bad. I see the prophet’s words, but I want some cannonized doctrine."

Blogger: "I am sorry that the words of our modern Prophets aren’t convincing enough for you. For me, they suffice."

Reader: "I believe that the Gospel of Christ is the answer to all problems in the world, as you do. You’ve questioned how I can be a true believer and still accept socialism. I know what Benson and others have said on the subject, I’ve just never really agreed with them. When they come out with a “thus saith the Lord” statement then I’ll swallow my pride and fall into line. Until then, I’ll continue to stand for that which my heart tells me is good. The way our system of Capitalism works here is the root of the great secret combinations of the latter-days."

Blogger: "Many people dislike when a Prophet delves into political and temporal affairs. A few quotes on the subject come to mind." The blogger then shares several quotes from Presidents of the Church regarding the role of the Prophet and that he is qualified to speak on any subject. The following quote from Harold B. Lee was one of these. "You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life… Your safety and ours depends upon whether or not we follow… Let’s keep our eye on the President of the Church." (Conference Report, October 1970, p. 152-153)

Reader: "[A] prophet of God is only a prophet when acting like one. I’ve heard of no revelations or official declarations on the subject of socialism vs. capitalism and therefore I continue to exercise my freedom of conscience. If you took every word that ever came over the pulpit from a general authority as revelation from God, you’d have to leave the Church if you had any integrity since so much changes over time. Joseph Smith told us that prophets are fallible men and subject to passions etc. You’ve got to base your testimony on Christ, not men. You will go wrong when you cease to follow Christ. Following the prophet is good when he is standing in Christ’s place. When he is standing in his own place and speaking his own opinion like Pres. Hinckley at the start of the Iraq war for example, take it with a grain of salt."

Blogger: "When he’s speaking over the pulpit, and his words published in the official Church publication, rest assured that he’s acting like one. Point six of Pres. Benson’s “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet” addresses this issue:

'The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture. Sometimes there are those who haggle over words. They might say the prophet gave us counsel, but that we are not obligated to follow it unless he says it is a commandment. But the Lord says of the Prophet Joseph, “Thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you' (D&C 21:4)."

Reader: "You stick to following every word which proceeds forth from the prophets mouth. As for me, I’ll stick to following every word that proceeds forth from the mouth of God. You have yet to understand that prophets are fallible men, while God is not fallible."

The blogger then responds with a number of quotations from scripture and latter-day prophets expounding that we should follow all the prophet says, that the prophet will never lead us astray, that some like to follow only when it fits their own views, but fall away when they don't like what the prophets say, etc.

Reader: "I agree that it is wise to follow a prophet’s counsel in most situations. I think that the intelligent member of the Church has to realize though that often our positions change with the times… showing a lack of inspiration in some areas. The intelligent member should acknowledge that the President stands in authority, holding the keys of the kingdom of God on the earth, but at the same time, not just accepting everything that the President or other GA’s say, but studying and searching out what they say and confirming their words with God for themselves."

Blogger: "Then how do you discern when not to follow the Prophet’s counsel? And why would you do such a thing? When the Prophet of God, in authority of his office, issues any commandment, counsel, or statement, isn’t that the mind and will of God? And if you don’t believe so, how do you discern when it is and when it isn’t?"

Several other readers of this blog, all members of the church, jumped into the conversation. Surprisingly, they all sided with the reader. Together they teamed up to contend with the author of the blog, asserting that following the prophet should be conditional.

The seeds of apostasy are abundant in our day. If we are not careful, even the elect will be deceived. If following the prophet is the only sure way to stay on the right course, planting questions in the minds of the saints about the legitimacy of the prophet's words must be a priority of the adversary. From the exchange above, it is clear that there are those within the church who have justified their belief that following the prophet is situational.

We Must follow the prophet. We ignore prophetic counsel at our own peril!!!

For a great discourse on this topic, refer to "Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet" by Elder Ezra Taft Benson. Follow the link to find this address: http://www.zionsbest.com/fourteen.html

The foundation for the remaining of the discussion is that we must believe and be willing to follow the words of latter-day prophets. With that in mind, we began to delve into the words of the prophets regarding our liberty, freedoms, and the destiny of our nation.

We viewed the following short video clip about the statement by many prophets and apostles that the fight for freedom in the last days is a continuation of the war in heaven. The agency of man is at the core of the Gospel, and was the central issue in question during that war which began in our pre-mortal state.

The prophets have had much to say about freedom and our country ever since the Gospel was restored. Reviewing statements of the 16 men who have served as Presidents of the Church in this dispensation, from a variety of sources, we discussed 10 key themes that surface repeatedly in the prophetic word. These 10 principles provide an instructive and important foundation for what we should adhere to as principles of freedom in our day.

1. The Constitution of the United States was inspired by God. It represents the greatest form of government ever devised for man on this earth.
2. The founding fathers of our nation were divinely inspired men, raised up by God for the purpose of establishing our government.
3. Latter-day Saints have a particular responsibility to uphold and defend the Constitution.
4. Significant threats to our Constitution will arise in the latter-days. The Constitution will be on the very verge of destruction.
5. The Latter-day Saints will rise up to save the Constitution from utter destruction, otherwise it will not endure.
6. We have a responsibility to learn all we can about the Constitution and strive to uphold the principles it represents.
7. Collectivist philosophies are counter to the principles of our government. These represent true threats to freedom that should be opposed.
8. The 'Law of the Harvest' and self-sufficiency are keys to preserving individual liberty.
9. Corrupt and misguided leaders and politicians will try to subvert true principles of government.
10. America will endure as a land of liberty, even if after much difficulty.

As a group we reviewed each of these ten principles, and read quotes from latter-day prophets supporting each one.

These statements have been compiled and categorized in a Power Point presentation, which I will attach as soon as I figure out how to attach a file to a blog post.

The prophets have been clear. Having received their words, we have a responsibility. Let us stand up and follow the counsel of prophets. As stated by Elder Ezra Taft Benson, we will "save our souls, and might just save our country".